第二代 LVI Smartguider II Imaging Control System 攝星控制系統正式發佈

[社長]

因為那個年代自動導星是很麻煩的事，而在菲林年代追踪容易誤差又是那麼大，所以機械精度高的赤道儀很有優勢，但到了數碼年代，單靠機械精度已很吃虧，沒有電子輔助根本應付不了長時間高解像度的數碼深空拍攝，又或者更準確的說，我不想押注在一個開放式自行系統上，有了自動導星形成一個閉路系統，我可以設定三小時曝光然後到車上睡覺。

一隻精度如何高的勞力士手錶，也不可能跟一隻廉價的電子石英錶匹敵的，更況是那些每日定期接收電波訊息自動校正時間的手錶。

我不是說高精度的赤道儀不好，只是說若我們重視結果(高精度追蹤深空照)，首要關注的是自動導星系統，而非機械精度。

[Nebulas]

因為那個年代自動導星是很麻煩的事，而在菲林年代追踪容易誤差又是那麼大，所以機械精度高的赤道儀很有優勢，但到了數碼年代，單靠機械精度已很吃虧，沒有電子輔助根本應付不了長時間高解像度的數碼深空拍攝，又或者更準確的說，我不想押注在一個開放式自行系統上，有了自動導星形成一個閉路系統，我可以設定三小時曝光然後到車上睡覺。

一隻精度如何高的勞力士手錶，也不可能跟一隻廉價的電子石英錶匹敵的，更況是那些每日定期接收電波訊息自動校正時間的手錶。

我不是說高精度的赤道儀不好，只是說若我們重視結果(高精度追蹤深空照)，首要關注的是自動導星系統，而非機械精度。

这段话很精辟，特别是打的比喻，受用了。

[funoooo]

個人覺得改良靈敏度可延長至四秒曝光是非常重要 sale point.
根據 Willis 的報告，現在又十五十六想買翻一個 LVI II。
現等社長批貨後， Willis 會測試多一次後再做決定。
話時話， LVI II 真係 Delay 得好利害！社長要加把競去追下先得！

若任何人認為四秒曝光是那麼重要的，我只能說他還未看懂LVI的特性，甚至未完全領略導星的遊戲規則。對我來說，超過一秒的曝光也過多了。

若我可以僅用一枝歪了的極軸鏡，沒用漂移法微調極軸，便能曝光11張x900秒得出以下結果，拍攝天區是最苛刻的天赤道區域，而被導星是在視場外的天津四，結果拍11張全部追蹤完美，而赤道儀是約5年歷史長期粗用，出國亂碰亂撞，在天台長期只用保護套著九號風球也不收起來的老殘舊HEQ5 Pro，那是不是你對導星的方法有些誤解?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=366

開發人準備要渡蜜月，可能會有兩三個月缺貨，我也只能優先供應給已付款預訂的同好了，包括香港及區內的訂戶。不過應有點餘貨的

社長,
你有可能說得對! 但如果我真的買, 就希望能買最 update model. 而且相差價錢不是很多. 我都係 prefer LVI II. 等社長有貨後, 再和 Willis 測試完再決定. 以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

[社長]

對，待Willis和你體驗過LVI II後，決定是否你所需要的才買，對你會更有保障。

[David]

我未用過其他guider (如SG4)，只用過第一代LVI於普通赤道儀，頭兩次用我主要是觀察社長點用，和按指示做，但第三次已可以完全自己一個人影。

我未用過SG4，不過聽說它不是完全不需電腦，而且比較巨型，也較貴。既然第一代LVI已做到我的要求，我便懶得試其他了。

[David]

我不是說高精度的赤道儀不好，只是說若我們重視結果(高精度追蹤深空照)，首要關注的是自動導星系統，而非機械精度。

這句很精警，所以我賣了EM200，用普通赤道儀+LVI更合理。

節省下來的錢，當然是用來買LS152T!

[funoooo]

以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

死啦~~~ 講錯嘢! 對不起!
其實 Willis 同我是老友, 只是講笑. 大家不用見怪.
原本我對 LVI 信心不大, 但 Willis 和社長一張照片已勝過千言萬語. 所以才十五十六是否買. 當然 LVI 不是代替我的 SG4. 只是希望用 LVI II 於大陸拍照用. 代替 QHY5 而已.

[xiaoer]

willis家中網絡有問題，上不了網，手提電話又不方便文字輸入，所以托我代他回應幾句。
他說他從來只說親身經歷或看到的事實，好就說好，GUIDE得好就是好，正如跟funoooo買的astrotech flattener，的確是價廉物美，很夾equinox ed-80, 他也在其他post照說了，難道他又是觀星者天文儀器社的sales?他只是顧客，和會在網上分享經驗的天文愛好者而已。
雖然你剛剛也道了歉，但willis還是認為要澄清一下。

[社長]

我未用過其他guider (如SG4)，只用過第一代LVI於普通赤道儀，頭兩次用我主要是觀察社長點用，和按指示做，但第三次已可以完全自己一個人影。

我未用過SG4，不過聽說它不是完全不需電腦，而且比較巨型，也較貴。既然第一代LVI已做到我的要求，我便懶得試其他了。

這點我有些"成就感"，我直接示範給你、Willis、台灣的Henry用，然後沒多久便上手了，有些人或許會認為我教授能力很好(當然認識我的朋友都持相反意見)，但這兩天看到Willis這位導星新手 (7月才第一次體驗自動導星)，也可教xiaoer自動導星拍M8 M20，那我相信要麼Willis的學習及教授能力極高(我不會懷疑)，另一個可能性，則是LVI的技術門檻十分低，學習曲線很短，新手也可以很容易出品追蹤精確的照片，我的確看過一些同好，用上了學習曲線很長的複雜導星系統，掙扎經年也出不了追蹤精確的照片。

Willis 的第一次，攝於一個月前：
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=365

[社長]

這句很精警，所以我賣了EM200，用普通赤道儀+LVI更合理。

節省下來的錢，當然是用來買LS152T!

高橋EM200是一個很經典的赤道儀，全球多少極高質量的照片都是用它拍出來的，這點不容置疑。但問題是，要把它的威力完全發揮出來，以展示出其本身跟另一台負載力同級但精度低不只一檔的Sky Watcher EQ6 Pro的差別，我看涉及兩個因素：

1. 近2000mm焦距的深空拍攝 (因為我至少用EQ6 Pro承254/1200牛反用LVI精確導星也沒問題)
2. 拍攝者的技術根底深厚 (至少我不是，而且我也看過很多用EM200承載著名攝星鏡拍出肥大星點)

所以若跟過半數攝星人一樣，用數碼單反配數百毫米焦距拍深空的，不如把錢放在好一點的相機、好一點的調焦系統，最好是走到適當的地點拍，效益更高。

這裡的照片我不認為是上佳作品，但至很多同好來說，應是合格的，所謂 A chain is only as strong as its weakness link，一條鎖錬最強也強不過其最弱一環，我很清楚天文攝影是一個系統工程，有太多因素影響一張作品的質量，硬件只是其中一環。

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[funoooo]

以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

真是對不起, 攪出個大頭佛!
以後會小心自己言行. 在此對有傷害到的人至歉.

[willis]

Thanks xiaoer for helping me to post a prompt reply!

Funoooo, I am definitely a science guy. I never believe in what I have been told without thinking, experiencing or proving. That’s why I am not a diehard fans of some popular brands. My background is physics and this helps me a lot in understand astronomical topics. I just tell what I have experienced and share with others. If I say anything good about 社長’s products, then I am his salesman. I am your salesman too. Because I said Astrotech flattener is a good match of Equinox 80ED too.
http://www.hkastroforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=20188
In fact, people are knowing the performance of LVI partly from my photos. Well, my photos are not particular good, but I would say it is above average for a DSI novice, perhaps one month experience in DSI. Can you name some other people with a few months experience whom can produce similar or better DSI? There are some, but not much, right? This is not because I am smart, BUT:
1. I am picky in getting equipment, but not necessarily expensive
2. Spend time on basic skills, focusing & balancing
3. Ask the right persons
4. Do reflection whenever I encounter failures
There is no secret! I assumed the above 4 points are not secrets. As you mentioned, 社長 & my photos tell everything.

原本我對 LVI 信心不大, 但 Willis 和社長一張照片已勝過千言萬語.

This is always my belief that “The photos speak for themselves”. I never big-mouth a topic which I cannot do. I walk the talk, not talk the talk. That’s why I asked xiaoer to do imaging with my “cheap” Equinox 80ED, “cheap” LVI, “cheap” HEQ5Pro etc. This is the evidence that I can still produce reasonable good photos without the APM-TMB which I recently borrowed and used. The prestigious APM-TMB is not my equipment. This makes me feel a bit odd that the photos are not really belongs to me…. And this is the motivation behind that I must use my own equipment to do DSI. The grand total of my equipment is less than even a prestigious mount or a prestigious telescope. Xiaoer experienced the easy use of LVI. Two days ago, after the LVI working smoothly in Shek O, xiaoer & I started to fool around and chat. There were other stargazers around. One of them used XXX auto-guider, but it failed all night. He was pissed off & finally he asked me about my auto-guider as he saw we were happy using auto-guiding. I told him my auto-guider is LVI. It is from Galaxy and costs $2xxx. Xiaoer can endorse this. Although the photos speak for themselves, can one get the message is another question. I think you are one of those who get the message from the photos. If you really get the message from the photos, there is no point to say I am a salesman. I would be happier if you say I am a smart consumer. As you mentioned, I am ur friend. Both社長 & u are my friends. I would be happy to see scientific, objective and peaceful discussions in this forum. Astrocafe is not a blah blah blah forum, right? As 社長mentioned, make sure you really want to buy LVI. Otherwise it is no good for u and the dealer. If you want to see how it works, we can image together next time.
Cheers!
Willis

[funoooo]

Thanks xiaoer for helping me to post a prompt reply!

Funoooo, I am definitely a science guy. I never believe in what I have been told without thinking, experiencing or proving. That’s why I am not a diehard fans of some popular brands. My background is physics and this helps me a lot in understand astronomical topics. I just tell what I have experienced and share with others. If I say anything good about 社長’s products, then I am his salesman. I am your salesman too. Because I said Astrotech flattener is a good match of Equinox 80ED too.
http://www.hkastroforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=20188
In fact, people are knowing the performance of LVI partly from my photos. Well, my photos are not particular good, but I would say it is above average for a DSI novice, perhaps one month experience in DSI. Can you name some other people with a few months experience whom can produce similar or better DSI? There are some, but not much, right? This is not because I am smart, BUT:
1. I am picky in getting equipment, but not necessarily expensive
2. Spend time on basic skills, focusing & balancing
3. Ask the right persons
4. Do reflection whenever I encounter failures
There is no secret! I assumed the above 4 points are not secrets. As you mentioned, 社長 & my photos tell everything.

原本我對 LVI 信心不大, 但 Willis 和社長一張照片已勝過千言萬語.

This is always my belief that “The photos speak for themselves”. I never big-mouth a topic which I cannot do. I walk the talk, not talk the talk. That’s why I asked xiaoer to do imaging with my “cheap” Equinox 80ED, “cheap” LVI, “cheap” HEQ5Pro etc. This is the evidence that I can still produce reasonable good photos without the APM-TMB which I recently borrowed and used. The prestigious APM-TMB is not my equipment. This makes me feel a bit odd that the photos are not really belongs to me…. And this is the motivation behind that I must use my own equipment to do DSI. The grand total of my equipment is less than even a prestigious mount or a prestigious telescope. Xiaoer experienced the easy use of LVI. Two days ago, after the LVI working smoothly in Shek O, xiaoer & I started to fool around and chat. There were other stargazers around. One of them used XXX auto-guider, but it failed all night. He was pissed off & finally he asked me about my auto-guider as he saw we were happy using auto-guiding. I told him my auto-guider is LVI. It is from Galaxy and costs $2xxx. Xiaoer can endorse this. Although the photos speak for themselves, can one get the message is another question. I think you are one of those who get the message from the photos. If you really get the message from the photos, there is no point to say I am a salesman. I would be happier if you say I am a smart consumer. As you mentioned, I am ur friend. Both社長 & u are my friends. I would be happy to see scientific, objective and peaceful discussions in this forum. Astrocafe is not a blah blah blah forum, right? As 社長mentioned, make sure you really want to buy LVI. Otherwise it is no good for u and the dealer. If you want to see how it works, we can image together next time.
Cheers!
Willis

Dear Willis,

Sorry by my word. I will be care next time.
It suppose be a joke; however, get the big mis-understanding. Sorry!
Of course, I really want to see how LVI's work. As you know, I am a dealer, but also I am a buyer. I try to settle my equipment as comfort as possible. Easy to handle, less wire, less accessory, less trouble. If that is a good equipment and fair price, I will buy it. LVI seems to be a good product for me. In Hong Kong, I use SG4. In China, I use the LVI II. That will be great. Willis, when do you get it? Please call me. I will join to see the testing.

社長, When do LVI II arrive? It take a long time.

Cheer,
Funoooo

[funoooo]

以防產生不必要誤會, 刪除此段文字 (from funoooo)

[社長]

今早收到LVI的來信，Astrotrac 及 Vixen Starbook 用戶應該很高興了!

Willis 也會得償所願，擁有一台Serial #001的LVI II

------------------------------------------------

Hello Savio,

As promised, I've sent and reserved to you the VERY first 15 pcs of the new SG2! Serial nums are from 1 to 15.

1. But you should be aware of the FOCUSER section disabled along this limited batch of cameras because some further work is still required there. Actually, nobody can drive a focuser, so nobody will use that section over next few months. But if required, those 15 customers could have their SG2 updated to the latest software release with no extra cost, return shipment at our cost.

2. Richard Taylor (the Astrotrac guy) was informed by myself in person about the capability of the SG2 to guide through one axis only. You can check this by yourself in a few days when SG2s will land there. In such a case, you'll have to rotate the camera head till the RA is horizontal to the sensor's long axis. The SG2 will exclude the DEC axis.

3. The latest Starbook S system should require no additional adapter. The Smartguider (1 and 2) should go straight there, while the "old" Starbook should require the Skysensor adapter and the AGA-1 option jumpering.

4. Please note, TNT has very limited staff now working here due to summer holidays, so all our shipments are quite slower than usual. Let me know if delivery should take too much time.

Thank you for your patience.

Paolo Lazzarotti

[willis]

Great! #001!!!
Only 15 LVI II? Some will ship to China, some will ship to Taiwan, some will ship to... Not much left in HK. Itallians really know how to enjoy their life. They don't care about $$$, but life.

[Henry Wu]

下列三附件來測試了 for VIXEN SXWE MOUNT 不知是否有到貨進來 ?
1. Cable LVI-REF, Can1, L=2m SmartGuider 2 港幣96 (for Canon 450)
2. Cable LVI-FOC, L=2m SmartGuider 2 港幣96 (for Steeper Motor)
3. Adapter LVI-Vix SmartGuider 1 and 2 港幣216 (for VIXEN SXWE MOUNT)

[社長]

那是三月訂的第一批而已，主要是留給零售用戶的，第二批稍後會到，主是是給外地的次級代理的。

若明天也到不了，我就不能帶到台灣測試了

[Henry Wu]

至少有訂還可以等寄來後再給我

[社長]

好的。

另外這次來我希望幫你把LVI導VC200L，若1800mm拍攝順利，導星器性能也超乎理想了。因為接近2000mm時，單獨導星已不能解決問題，要借助Adaptive Optics自適應光學。