高山症

[pleiades]

高山症 - Mountain Sickness / Altitude Sickness

Many AstroCafers are going to high altitude regions to stargazing. Some of the great spots include Tibet which is >5000m above the sea level.
People fear of mountain sickness, because mountain sickness can kill !!

Mountain sickness is actually a collection of symptoms and signs - ranging from mild headaches to severe cerebral oedema (yes, your brain is "drowned" - 腦水腫) that is often fatal.
It can happen to people of all ages. It can occur in any healthy individuals - be you young or not.

Before you go, I strongly suggest you to consult your doctor.
Make sure your heart is healthy enough to survive in the less oxygen environment - more specifically, an area with a less O2 partial pressure.
You will need, at least, an ECG - 心電圖
and better to have an echocardiogram - 心臟超聲波 - to assess the function of your heart, and to ensure your heart does not have any cogenital problem or structural abnormalities, e.g. 心漏症
because if your heart is not pumping well, your brain will not have enough oxygen supply to keep you awake.
And if your heart is not functional well, with a less oxygen supply in high altitude regions your heart will not have enough oxygen to keep pumping !!

If you have chronic health problem such as any heart problems, lung problems, kidney problems, etcetc, you should avoid going there.

Still, it doesn't mean that a well healthy person will not get mountain sickness...
it is very complicated ... that involves lots of human physiology
if you can carry an oxygen cylinder that provides you oxygen for the whole period of time you stay in the high altitude areas, probably you should be fine ...
but unfortunately, there is no such a good device that provide you with continual oxygen.

What you can do is to give time for your body to adjust and adapt the new environment - "acclimatisation" 海拔適應
It generally takes one to three days at any given altitude for your body to adjust and adapt. Say, spend one to three days at 4000m before advancing further. When you reach, 5000m, spend another one to three days there before starting any activities.

You also need to realise that any symptoms you experienced could be fatal - even a mild headache.
Once the symtoms started to occur, you will need to start treatment and consider descent to a lower altitude.
Of course, you need to seek medical attention - see a doctor that is qualified to treat mountain sickness.

I recommend any AstroCafers who is going to Tibet or any high altitude regions >3000m to see a doctor before you go, and get some medications with you - this could be life-saving!!
I also suggest a few websites that provide very good, easy to read information about mountain sickness - for recognisation of the symptoms of mountain sickness and what to do.

Emedicine - written and reviewed by medical professionals
more precise, but for medical personnels
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/mountain ... cle_em.htm

Easy to read, Wikipedia - in Chinese
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AB%98% ... 1%E7%97%87

Another easy to read article in English
http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/altitude.htm

[社長]

Tony 醫生，很好的資料，謝謝!

這話題雖在輕鬆閒聊版，但絶不輕鬆

我個人的看法，只要大氣透明度夠高，光害夠少，其實3000海拔以上已夠精采，5000以上會有點分別，但應否在上面通宵達旦消耗體力很有保留，那的確是有危險性的。機器可以在上面自動化運作，但人留上面應以8小時為限，之後降回3000海拔以下。

國外的天文台都有這條件，西藏海拔雖高，大氣條件也好，但整個高原郤沒有下降空間，植被少也導致空氣含氧量偏低。至少在類近的海拔，高美古及合歡山便舒服得多了，我在3275的合歡山武嶺，是抱著40公斤以上的赤道儀連鏡跑上觀景台的。

[willis]

Thanks for the medical advice. I need to consult doctor before I go to Tibet. I've been to Tibet once in 97. I went there with 2 friends. One of them got AMS, but after taking some rest he was ok. At that time I was ok & the highest altitude was 5800m. Now I am older & my physique was worst than that of 97, and I am married, and I have my own family etc.... SOOOO consult doctor and be cautious.

[社長]

Tony 如何看這情況?

在例如4000海拔氣壓下純粹增加氧氣含量，例如用室內製氧機，仰或氣壓都要相對提升?

[pleiades]

that's a good idea to get this machine 室內製氧機 - in your Tibet Observatory.

regarding 室內製氧機 , what's the mechanism of this machine to produce pure oxygen ?? - by electrolysis of water i guess ??

if it can produce pure oxygen, this machine is absolutely life saving.

as far as i know, most symptoms of mountain sickness is because of the decrease of partial pressure of oxygen in high altitude area ...
that means that the pressure of oxygen (say in 4000m above sea level) is not high enough to "push" the oxygen to get diffused into our lung.

there is still 20% oxygen in Tibet > 4000m, but the partial pressure of oxygen in that height is far less than that in sea level.
(that's what my tutor insisted after he came back from Mt Everest, and i think that's still the current understanding of altitude sickness)

think about the astronauts,
why they can survive in the vacuum space - they have all time oxygen supply - providing them with 80% O2 and 20% N2 ... (also, you need some CO2 to keep your brain working and keep you breathing - quite an interesting mechanism of life)

so the mainstay treatment for mountain sickness (if you can descend to lower level) - in acute phase - with medications to decrease fluid in the brain and lungs, as well as delivery appropriate amount of oxygen in addition to increment in its partial pressure to the victim.
some advanced centres for altitude sickness provide hyperbaric oxygen treatment, aiming to deliever the highest amount of oxygen to the body in the shortness time

so, it will become clear - 氣壓都要相對提升
if we have this machine in a closed, well sealed confined room, and it keeps producing oxygen (or at least, intermittently),
ideally it should be able to achieve increment of the partial pressure of oxygen sufficent enough to keep us breathing as if on sea level and to keep us alive ! ... of course depending how much oxygen it can produce in a minute and how many people are there
therefore, make sure your tibet observatory has good sealing !! - you don't want the precious O2 escaping to the low partial pressure area outdoor ... ... and of course, make sure good insulation ~ keep us warm : )

or,
we can use this machine only when required - if someone needs O2 - give them O2
if you can produce your own O2 Tank (the black metal cylinder containing liquifiedoxygen), you'll be safe

[社長]

謝謝Tony詳細解釋，我以前那些醫生女友好像不懂這個，最多晚上到殮房刨屍皮，下班後到獸醫朋友處幫手縫貓耳朵。

試過用那台機睡過三晚，但肯定不是增壓的。當天文台建好後，我一方面想裝這台"製氧機"，但也會置一氣樽的純氧，看來這是最可靠的最後手段? 因為5月份我到納木錯時，有一位德國教授知道後馬上從那大氣樽中充一樽可攜式的給我，因為是高壓金屬樽，應可維持數小時來回之用。始終有些錢是省不了。

這個帖很有參考價值，謝謝Tony!

[社長]

Thanks for the medical advice. I need to consult doctor before I go to Tibet. I've been to Tibet once in 97. I went there with 2 friends. One of them got AMS, but after taking some rest he was ok. At that time I was ok & the highest altitude was 5800m. Now I am older & my physique was worst than that of 97, and I am married, and I have my own family etc.... SOOOO consult doctor and be cautious.

剛從西藏回來，問了行情，有計劃待我私人遠程天文台運作暢順及香港一項大計劃上軌道後，實踐登珠峰計劃。一般來說最理想是四五月份，或入秋後，我個人比較喜歡五月那時段，費用10萬元一位，包括五位同行醫生、廚師、領隊、苦力等，另外包括所有裝備，及事前在羊八井10日習訓費用，這個登峰造極之旅，據說很安全及差不多保證成功的，因為有這麼多人"挾"自己上去，剛剛連瞎的也可以登頂了。但目前最大問題是最少三人成行。

Willis不如豁出去，人生在世最終點都一樣，不外乎重於鴻毛或輕於泰山，不如和David一起參與，那我便夠腳了。

在七千多米處有最後一個營地，我們可以在那裡過夜，拍什麼都可以了，訊噪比很高，熱訊噪很低的。

[willis]

Just come back from clinic. I will have EGG tomorrow. If I passed the EGG, my doctor will prescribe me the medicine which can avoid drowned brain.

[社長]

Just come back from clinic. I will have EGG tomorrow. If I passed the EGG, my doctor will prescribe me the medicine which can avoid drowned brain.

Egg or ECG?

那xiaoer如何準備？

[社長]

Willis問問醫生要吃哪些藥才可登珠峰，差你一個我們就夠腳了

[willis]

Just come back from clinic. I will have EGG tomorrow. If I passed the EGG, my doctor will prescribe me the medicine which can avoid drowned brain.

Egg or ECG?

那xiaoer如何準備？

Ha ha! We need to more egg before go to Tibet.
I told Xiaoer about my preparation already. She will contact doctor soon.

[benben88]

Willis問問醫生要吃哪些藥才可登珠峰，差你一個我們就夠腳了

Oh , I just met the person just 登珠峰 today ...... he is my colleague's long term friend.

[Nebulas]

Willis問問醫生要吃哪些藥才可登珠峰，差你一個我們就夠腳了

Oh , I just met the person just 登珠峰 today ...... he is my colleague's long term friend.

好久不见Benben 兄，最近也有出行来内地的打算啊？

迟点也请你来我们论坛了, http://astomates.com。

[benben88]

想往重慶考察一下，好呀，會去你的論壇看看. 交流一下。

[willis]

Just come back from clinic. My medical checkup is ok. The ECG shows no abnormalities under resting condition. I didn't attend other more expensive checkups, say echocardiogram or other cardiogram under stretching. My physician prescribed me the Acetazolamide(海拔適) in order to prevent or relief the altitude sickness. I've been to Tibet since 1997. This is too exciting to go Tibet & do stargazing there!

[社長]

有可能到時我的高山反應最大

[willis]

有可能到時我的高山反應最大

Why? u've been to Tibet many many time.

[社長]

有可能到時我的高山反應最大

Why? u've been to Tibet many many time.

我有反應，你們沒有，所以我的反應最大