Build up a school astronomy club 要注意的事

[社長]

So this is the typical scenario in my school: A student starts joining astronomy club from form 1 or 2, then stay for 2 years usually. Then the more passive students move on to other clubs. The more enthusiastic ones who continue in form 4 and 5 are so busy, in addition to their own poor initiative at leading the club.

對一些狂熱愛好者來說，包括我，天文不是玩一時，而是玩一輩子的，中學只是人生中很短暫的一個段落。以中小學教師來說，教導學生時有其時限，但眼光放遠些，其實沒什麼大不了，或許那些學生會成為終身愛好者及自己的好朋友。正如我最近向自己的中學老師”報告”，三十年前的功課終於完成了，遲交總比沒交好.... 他老人家還是很高興的

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我亦不時向他請教拍攝月球的技巧：

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佛家的想法是，誦經唸佛多些，想做壞事的雜念就會少些。同樣，我個人很相信青少年在學的那幾年總要找些事來忙碌的，若能醉生夢死的沉迷玩幾年天文，最後能入讀大學便可以，反正出來工作又要在另一條起跑線上重新開始。若一個人能沉迷一樣學問上，便自會有追求，那本身已是一種上升動力。

我是很功利的”香港仔”，沒勇氣去抗爭圍堵塗鴉，但發現最有效益的捷徑，就是先服從現有的遊戲規則去玩得出色，之後才造反，畢竟我們大學時代的人版就是根正苗紅出身最後瓦解蘇聯的戈爾巴喬夫。我不是讀書的材料，也極度討厭考試，但當年最高回報的捷徑就是憑會考成績以暫取生資格入讀中大。所以我決定放下天文一整年專注會考，取得優異成積後，換來的回報是預科可選擇升讀皇仁或英皇，渡過一年無壓力的中六後入讀中大，當年只有4%的會考生最終能入讀大學，競爭很激烈的。入大學後是我可以盡情四年玩天文的好日子，重建了中大天文台、到北京興隆密雲懷柔的天文設施遊歷、也開創了日後的公開會社天文工作坊，我當時的策略是僅夠水平大學畢業便可以了，因為日後工作或創業，解決問題不是靠個人知識的。畢業後入職一間當時市值比匯豐大的跨國電子集團，面試時的確用了5分鐘解釋大學成績不夠理想的原因，但我在處理天文項目的經歷，讓人家相信我有能力去做好工程師的工作，而當時我的理想是三十歲後全時間發展天文，其餘便是歷史了。

所以我會鼓勵自己的孩子盡情去發展自己的興趣，哪知道什麼時間會化成為自己的事業。

[PaulNg]

The EDB in HK has a rational:

1. If something is good, make sure EVERYONE does it.
2. How to measure the success? Measure the amount of time spent on the activity.

So, for example, now everyone has to do a certain amount of voluntary work. I heard that some elderly home are so busy 'entertaining' requests from various schools. It makes you wonder: Who is servicing who?

So this is the typical scenario in my school: A student starts joining astronomy club from form 1 or 2, then stay for 2 years usually. Then the more passive students move on to other clubs. The more enthusiastic ones who continue in form 4 and 5 are so busy, in addition to their own poor initiative at leading the club.

That's the problem of trying to quantify something unquantifiable. If they have to make this kind of OLE a criteria of promoting to the university , there aren't many workable ways.

I'm now trying to change the students dropping out situation by increasing the ratio of committee members to regular members. The committees may not be enthusiasts, but are certainly hardcore fans of the club. If there are some activities that is not so suitable to be organized by the school those people are the ones who are called.

Also I'm setting limitation to regular member numbers.. there just aren't enough equipment and man-power to serve everyone. There are also "screening tests" for the students who want to join the club as there is a number limit. The test is quite good because those who really wanna join would try to do it, but those who are marginally interested will not.

[David]

There are also "screening tests" for the students who want to join the club as there is a number limit. The test is quite good because those who really wanna join would try to do it, but those who are marginally interested will not.

I am interested in what these tests are like, if you don't mind sharing. I don't have astronomy club this year as a break but will start again in the new academic year. I want to build up a club with better member quality.

[David]

發現最有效益的捷徑，就是先服從現有的遊戲規則去玩得出色

I wish more students of mine understand this. A lot don't seem to care. I always say that, if you don't choose to do what is right, then you lose to right to choose very soon.

[社長]

I wish more students of mine understand this. A lot don't seem to care. I always say that, if you don't choose to do what is right, then you lose to right to choose very soon.

不要說學生，很多時從商的人也不明白這點，有一位顧客選擇跟我買望遠鏡，因為不想電話未掛上已聽到對方問候自己娘親

自從全職發展天文，有機會坐在面試桌的另一端，又用自己的真金白銀去聘用員工，不能忽視成本效益時，短短時間已讓我深感受到，現在社會上不時討論的各種現象，更多源自個人身上。

今天天佑到過火炭工作室，跟他談過一陣子，我建議他不要把事情複雜化，與其想太多天文學會架構及行政事宜，不如先從自己開始，做一個行動者，找幾位有共同興趣的同學一起活動，或參與你不時進行的小組觀星活動。

[PaulNg]

There are also "screening tests" for the students who want to join the club as there is a number limit. The test is quite good because those who really wanna join would try to do it, but those who are marginally interested will not.

I am interested in what these tests are like, if you don't mind sharing. I don't have astronomy club this year as a break but will start again in the new academic year. I want to build up a club with better member quality.

I'm not looking for ppl with good knowledge, i'm just looking for ppl who are willing to put effort and take part. So I allow them to look for answers:

1. What does the constellation “Ursa Major” look like?
A) A big dog
B) A small dog
C) A big bear
D) A small bear

2. When is the full moon in Oct, 2010?
A) 8/10
B) 15/10
C) 22/10
D) 29/10

3. Which of the following is NOT a registered public astronomy society?
A) Hong Kong Universe Society
B) Hong Kong Astronomical Society
C) Space Observers Hong Kong
D) Sky Observers’ Association (Hong Kong)

4. Which of the following is NOT an astronomy magazine?
A) Sky and Telescope
B) Astronomy
C) Astronomy Now
D) The Universe Today

5. Lunar Eclipse occurs because…
A) the moon is eaten by a dog.
B) the sun blocks the view of the moon.
C) sunlight cannot reach the moon’s another side.
D) the Earth blocked sunlight from reaching the moon.

[David]

I'm not looking for ppl with good knowledge, i'm just looking for ppl who are willing to put effort and take part. So I allow them to look for answer

This is a good direction to try. Thank you so much for your sharing. May be we can have some joint school activity sometime!

[David]

有一位顧客選擇跟我買望遠鏡，因為不想電話未掛上已聽到對方問候自己娘親

幸好我未遇過這些待遇…

我以前都有從其他香港望遠鏡代理買器材或配件，感覺上每個老闆都是很平易近人的，只是部份代理的一些做事方式我接受不到，例如約了某時間見面，卻忘記了，或出了門做一些非突發的事，要我等了半小時；試過我要的品牌不是我收到的，然後卻說它們都是一樣的；又試過訂一個配件，一段時間後問問情況如何，卻原來忘記了落訂。有時，我覺得我在乞求服務，感覺不太好。

當我看到有其他同好經歷一些更荒唐的服務，仍有人宣傳這些代理乃同好的唯一選擇，乃什麼「四大名店」，我覺得對新手是很誤導的。

[社長]

有一位顧客選擇跟我買望遠鏡，因為不想電話未掛上已聽到對方問候自己娘親

幸好我未遇過這些待遇…

那些例子我聽過不只一次，剛早幾天有一位朋友來買望遠鏡時也有類似遭遇，我發現他們的共通點是：新手不懂望遠鏡、想買一些沒有現貨的型號、需要一些時間諮詢一些望遠鏡技術細節。

很明顯你不會出現這情況。

當我看到有其他同好經歷一些更荒唐的服務，仍有人宣傳這些代理乃同好的唯一選擇，乃什麼「四大名店」，我覺得對新手是很誤導的。

若你相信市場機制，市場自會作出選擇的。新手被誤導與否，甚實本身也有自己的責任，因為市場上不只一個諮詢途徑，而Astrocafe的出現，就是我們認為市場上應補充一個諮詢及參考渠道，否則很多人甚至不知道香港有這些天文基建設施：

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[David]

[而Astrocafe的出現，就是我們認為市場上應補充一個諮詢及參考渠道

我就是在沒有Astrocafe的年代開始玩天文，結果買了很多高橋。

[社長]

但之後我幫你賣了差不多所有高橋

你說得對，03年剛回來香港時，的確要"靠"一些團體或群組去學習天文及參與活動，對眼前所見的不公義、群黨及盲目跟風行為很不以為然，到後來你有足夠自立能力，也有足夠經驗，便可以去選對的器材。

現在有Astrocafe，你便可以在無壓力下去用及分享自己認為對的東西。

[TimothyYu]

This year, I have discovered that developing astronomy or physic give me power. I really want to build up my astronomy club now!!

[mwtse]

This year, I have discovered that developing astronomy or physic give me power. I really want to build up my astronomy club now!!

個人愚見認為，學校的天文學會屬於公器，即是使用公家（學校）的資源（就算你自己出器材，但用的是學校名義，因此也歸入學校資源），是公家的一部分，且服務公家的，因此，不宜過度把學會看成「自己的」學會。我瞭解同學的投入所產生的歸屬感和認同感，但一涉及團體，總會有些事情需要妥協，請切記不要太感情用事。現實上，的確有許多人公器私用，例如使用公費去滿足個人的購買慾之類，相信你不屬於這一類人，但把個人情感植根在一個學會上，是另一個層面的公私不分，這道理你在現階段未必能夠明白，但把一個學會看成是「自己的」並不是一個健康的現象。

[社長]

個人愚見認為，學校的天文學會屬於公器，即是使用公家（學校）的資源（就算你自己出器材，但用的是學校名義，因此也歸入學校資源），是公家的一部分，且服務公家的，因此，不宜過度把學會看成「自己的」學會。我瞭解同學的投入所產生的歸屬感和認同感，但一涉及團體，總會有些事情需要妥協，請切記不要太感情用事。現實上，的確有許多人公器私用，例如使用公費去滿足個人的購買慾之類，相信你不屬於這一類人，但把個人情感植根在一個學會上，是另一個層面的公私不分，這道理你在現階段未必能夠明白，但把一個學會看成是「自己的」並不是一個健康的現象。

謝 sir 的是肺腑之言，一針見血，也是香港眾多天文學會，不下三十四年以來大部份矛盾的根源。

[funoooo]

終於看完大家卓見，非常認同大家見解。 Timothy 真是得益良多。
有關建立天文學會，真的需要熱誠，同時真的喜歡天文。
我意思是"真的"，不是"三分鐘"。而且要有智慧！

上次 Timothy 過來看我支 C8，我都是進言叫他不要買。
因此鏡不是他自己一人買的，而且 Mount 方面亦未決定，更不清楚自己的觀察目標。我怕害了佢。
熱誠不是衝動！買器材要考清楚！唉~~~ 請 Timothy 不要見怪，苦口婆心只希望你不要後悔！

建學會都一樣，不是建了就算數，而要多方配合！

盡可能攪能在校內進行活動！觀察太陽月亮及行星。這樣在安全上及成事上機會大 D。
而出外觀星，一年兩三次罷了。太多反而影響學業及使家長反感。
總之設計時要三思。

[社長]

純個人取向，我們作為有經驗愛好者、教育工作者，給一位想發展天文的初中生多方面善意的意見是理所當然的，但若令到他畏首畏尾，或變得太過老成持重，實非他的褔份。

始終天佑想做的是很單純，也十分健康的事，只是有些取向或方針，以我們過來人說認為要謹慎行事，以免"出錯"或"浪費時間"。但一件事到最後得與失，其實並非那麼容易計算，我們亦不留保證天佑不會從中探索出一條我們沒有功成過的路，所以我相信，這個年紀，是他要經歷這些人和事的最黃金機會。

正如我的老師也跟我說，不要對自己的西藏天文台有太大期望，但也強調，不要錯過機會。我後天就要起程了，或許順利的話，過幾天就會動土，誰知道未來10年我透過這個天文台，可以實現什麼? 但我肯定不想浪費時間去猜去度，我要做一個行動者。

[pleiades]

I was one of the committee member and later an advisor of the Astronomy Society of my high school ... almost 10 years ago.
It's never easy to run a club at school. Not to mention a number of limitations and considerations that many of the AstroCafers have mentioned.

I think the first thing to have is your commitment to the club - never an easy understanding in this word ... it's life long learning and fulfillment.
In simple word, for instance, how much time you're willing to spend on the club.
I just realise it's now 6 years course in the secondary school in hk instead of 7 years - back to our oldl days ...
so when will you start your astronomy club ?? in form 4, form 5, form 6 ??
and when is the diploma examination ??
it might have been raised in the discussion threads, i might have overlooked ...

if you're still keen to set up the astronomy club,
i think writing up your own proposal will be a good start ?
your objectives, budget, membership, teacher advisor, your committee, how you're going to run the club, what activities you're going to organise a year, what instrument you're going to invest - it's a long process for approval from the continuing education fund if your school want to get their own telescope for the years to come. Even naked eyes observation would be good to start with, as long as you have the passion !!

post your proposal
i think many AstroCafers will be willing to help : )

[社長]

It's never easy to run a club at school. Not to mention a number of limitations and considerations that many of the AstroCafers have mentioned.

樓上謝sir一針見血，很多人不理解這點所以搞天文學會便顯得很困難。

年前有一個天文學會透過一間Team Building公司想租用白鷺湖中心(白鷺湖天文台那裡)搞些組織活動，原來他們內部新老派系互相抵制，新上任的會長想改善一下這情況。

很多人以一個錯誤的心態去營運一個非牟利機構，除非機構本身有一個很強烈及神聖的使命感，否則其實是注定失敗的，一來委員及會員之間其實無權力關係，二來人總是有私心的。所以能改變這個局面，不外是返樸歸真，每個人做回一個行動者。

多拿望遠鏡出外觀測，多發表報告，不斷去實現自己的天文夢想，遊歷、基建、製作都可以。自然便會感染到更多人去做同樣的事。到核心團隊成長到一定地步，才去構思最低限度的營運系統也未遲。

行動是因，組織是果，但太多人本末倒置，以為紙上談兵構思一個組織出來，便會有人對號入座，擔當任務形成組織，然後又會會務蒸蒸日上，自己就坐在高高在上的管理位置。抱歉這個世界沒有免費午餐的。

有沒有想過，香港已有歷史悠久的不同論壇，也有根基深厚不同特色的各個天文會社，按理從供求各方面因素來看，Astrocafe是沒有生存空間或"市場需求"的，但過去一年證明是相反，至少我們死不去之餘，看來還是循增長方向發展的，和整體香港天文會社的發展形勢剛好相反，那究竟整個故事是如何開始的呢? 星河科研社從2003年沙士最低潮期起步，與八九十年代黃金時期開始的同業不同，我有所有失敗的理由，但現時區內不少基建也由星河科研社建立，天文儀器一噸噸的進出口，每年活動人次途萬人次，究竟原因何在?

[TimothyYu]

I need to wait for the time!!

[TimothyYu]

I think we can share about ours astronomy lives!!!