Build up a school astronomy club 要注意的事

[mwtse]

There are a few things that they are unlikely to be able to do and I think the teacher-in-charge will need to do personally:

1. Give astronomical talks
2. Point the scope to targets manually, except a few usual ones

Well, the teacher i/c is also unlikely to be able to do the above.

I think we are some how underestimated our students. At our time, it was the student committee that gave the talks. If we can, why they couldn't? The new generation is smarter than us. So in a way, I believed it is our expectation as well as their own expectation that prevent them from doing so. Moreover, we are sort of over worry about the possibility of students screwing things up, aren't we?

[社長]

若學生可以做到這點，

2. Can point the scope at usual targets (moon, sun, planets, M42, M8, etc)

我不介意他們用GOTO去找一些暗淡但有興趣的目標，

2. Point the scope to targets manually, except a few usual ones

我的個人看法是，前者是基本功，若通過測試了，後者若用GOTO的確有些便利，畢竟觀測才是重點，無必要所有人都在望遠鏡操控這細節上掙扎。

當然我同意你的18"UC對學生來說是有些挑戰，但那台Dob 12 Flextube，你好像也隨意讓他們搞的? 所以我一般的做法是，就算一家學校建了天文台，也會預留一筆錢買一批小折射鏡，我供給好些中小學，及城大通識天文科也是這類型，目的就是要降低學生操控望遠鏡的門檻，結果數年下來，這麼多學校總計下來也沒有多少台或零件被弄壞的。

這幅照片不是造作扮出來的，而是當日無線下午來採訪，突然烏雲散去月亮展現天際，這批天文班學生發現後十多秒不夠便全部把望遠鏡指向月亮自行觀看了，照片所見其實是真情流露一刻，校長、教師、家長、我都袖手旁觀而已。這些望遠鏡才每台千多元，整批十台加起來才萬多元。

[David]

At our time, it was the student committee that gave the talks.

I was unfortunate not to have a good astronomy club in my mother school. The only things that I remember are:
1. One talk on redshift given by HKAS
2. An astro camp at Pak Tam Chung, but weather was no good. The Math teacher who went there with us introduced a bit about the sky, but I forgot what he said.

[David]

我不介意他們用GOTO去找一些暗淡但有興趣的目標

I had very poor experience with GOTO systems when I started out using them many years ago. I also find star alignment very time consuming. So I personally don't use GOTO, and my students don't know it either as a result.

當然我同意你的18"UC對學生來說是有些挑戰，但那台Dob 12 Flextube，你好像也隨意讓他們搞的?

I let my students play with my scopes by themselves as much as possible. I am too lazy.

[David]

校長、教師、家長、我都袖手旁觀而已。

This reminds me of an open day I went to in a famous school with astronomy club. The teacher is extremely experienced but the students I talked to didn't know much. A student said to me 'This big scope is our teacher's.... you'd better ask him. He is a very famous amateur astronomer in Hong Kong .......(then he talked about how good his teacher is)'.

After a while, I saw the teacher who was introducing all the hi-tech equipment with no participation from the student. Then his student came in and got yelled at by the teacher, asking him to get out! So it was a room just with the teacher, the equipment, and a few interested adults as audience. No students were present.

[社長]

我兩三年前為一所小學搞一個天文活動，是該校一位新接手的主任和我接洽的。

我很奇怪問她為何要租我們的望遠鏡，因為據我理解他們已有很多對業餘愛好者來說都是高端的望遠鏡。但那位主任說，學校的望遠鏡是上一手負責的老師管理，鎖在一個房間裡，其他人及學生都不能動的。當然那段時間我不時看到網上及電視報導，有關該校晚上開放場地搞公開天文活動，接待很多愛好者參與，而部份器材又不時出現一些愛好者家中拍攝天文照片。

所以一間學校有很活躍的老師不是故事的全部，最終更重要是學生參與度如何。

[PaulNg]

Uh very interesting topic... it makes my submarine resurface haha..

I agree whole-heartedly to all teachers here are saying about setting up and organizing the clubs at school. Being the teacher who started the club in my school, I have been the real person in charge of the club for these years instead of the students. They are just like helpers and such, and I really want to get rid of this habit.

I remember so well that in my secondary school the student committees not only hold the talks to fellow schoolmates, but also to the astro-club in their related primary school every week. Since when have our students fail to take the initiative?

The NSS has made our life even more miserable as we no longer have S6 students to count on. I believe that after facing public exams, students will be much more mature. However, those coming S5 students are not tested by obstacles and I think they will not perform as good as S6 students.

[社長]

Since when have our students fail to take the initiative?

80年代是好日子，下課後我會從香港仔乘巴士及地鐵，到當時尚是海邊的坑口拆船厰買厚身玻璃回來磨鏡，鑄鋁要交工件到大角咀，之後要到洪水橋取件，鍍鋁要到屯門工業區的。由於那時沒有手提電話或傳呼機，而我的行程都是”即興”及自己編排的，晚上十時回家時才用解釋去了那裡。

觀星地點? 我們這些初中生最喜歡是長洲墳場、萬宜水庫元五墳、九嶺涌等。那時家住鴨脷洲，甚至跟些漁民問過，能否載我毎到擔桿島看看....

相信現今很多家長不會容許這事發生（天佑例外）。我有些時候會想，是否香港引入外籍家庭傭工後，那個年代成長的青少年便開始出現惰性? 我想指出問題不在傭工而在家長方面，為了避免情況出現在我的女兒身上，她滿月起我和太太便每天開車帶她一同上班，我在辦公枱旁就是她的嬰兒床，不用經第三者看管。

[社長]

Being the teacher who started the club in my school, I have been the real person in charge of the club for these years instead of the students. They are just like helpers and such, and I really want to get rid of this habit.

數年前David尚在舊校時曾跟我埋怨，說花了好些日子去帶學生，最後沒有一個專注下來玩天文。我告訴他孔子是萬世師表，化三千才有七十士，所以就算他教學水平跟孔子一樣高，帶一百個學生才有兩個成才。而我的老師也算是重量級愛好者了，但在舊校10年下來就只有我一位持續玩天文到今天。

坦白說，跟我的老師相處的幾年，他其實沒有直接教我什麼，但看到他家書房放滿整櫃的天文書，10年後我從倫敦一箱箱的掃古老天文書，看到當年他花1萬元用Cave 8寸鏡自製一台牛頓鏡及赤道儀，我17歲那年重建了那台逾噸重的中大30公分牛反，看他用的是一整盒Royal Astro 1.25" Or目鏡，我現在是一箱Mono及Ethos了，聽他說新疆的沙漠觀星很壯觀，我現在到西藏到處跑了....　

所以還是那一句，除了天文外這世代還有太多青少年可以選擇的正面活動，我們能夠做的就是繼續做好自己，去影響那幾粒適合的種子。我很相信，今天我跑上5100海拔蓋圓頂，將來便會有其他人爬得更高；今天我為一所學校建造了一個民間太空館，之後香港便會出現更多的民間太空館。

[David]

今天我又收到某大學天文營的宣傳，看過那組織的facebook、網頁後，又是大部份和天文沒有什麼關系的相片。我不否定可以有聯誼活動，但為什麼大部份的相不是一些吸引人的天文活動照片？如此的活動如何能提高同學對天文的興趣？

要我代為向同學宣傳這類活動，真的有點困難。

我相信認真觀星，本身已經很有趣，不用加插什麼BBQ或遊戲。我的觀星活動，每次都不會考慮食飯時間，同學要早一點(如6pm)或遲一點吃 (如10pm後)，自行解決。由同學的反應，我知道星空本身已經夠吸引，不需什麼活動解悶：
http://www.imsc.edu.hk/pages/astronomy/ ... 00319.html
http://www.imsc.edu.hk/pages/astronomy/ ... 070126.htm

其實會否連參加者自己也對那組織沒有期望，透過活動識下人便可以了嗎？

某天文組織曾經問我有沒有參加他們的觀星營，我說我很少參加觀星營的，因為永遠不能知道當晚天氣如何。他回應說，到那裡玩玩，一齊享用一下那裡的設施也是好的。我想，如果我只是想玩，也沒有興趣花錢和一班陌生男女一起玩吧。

[TimothyYu]

大家所說的。要慢慢消化。 but I asked my teacher what he is planning for next year and he just said after built up the 天文館 for students who are studying astronomy it shown that he not really want to do other things. (just my easy opinion)

[David]

熱心的學生，不是沒有，只是數量極少。

在舊校最後一年，有一個中一同學很喜歡參加我的天文學會的活動。我離開後，接手的老師「風格很不一樣」，那同學很努力地嘗試帶起個學會，但明顯地和之前很不一樣。他有一次失望地對我說，新的通頂觀星活動，是有睡覺的環節的。

之後在一次學界天文問答比賽中，竟然有負責的大學生親自問他有沒有興趣做推廣活動，結果他在天文年時有幫手派Galileoscope，也有幫手一些活動，又參加中天訓，接觸到不同的天文組織的人和事，「見識」了不少。

但他說他最喜歡的都是參加我的18吋觀星活動。他說到過我的活動後，任何天文中心和組織的觀星活動都沒有興趣了，間中也帶他的朋友來參加。

有時很感慨，在天水圍我只用一年便改變了一個成績一般的學生，對自己喜歡的天文有一點分享和承擔之心。在現在的學校，同學學習質素一般較佳，但就算有不少跟了我4年的同學也只是停留在「樂於參與」的階段。

[TimothyYu]

Thx for yours opinions and yours help me to relax a lot thx for support!!!!!!

[mwtse]

今天我又收到某大學天文營的宣傳，看過那組織的facebook、網頁後，又是大部份和天文沒有什麼關系的相片。我不否定可以有聯誼活動，但為什麼大部份的相不是一些吸引人的天文活動照片？如此的活動如何能提高同學對天文的興趣？

要我代為向同學宣傳這類活動，真的有點困難。

謝謝你報料，今天亦收到宣傳，相信是同一所大學，原打算抽時間看看網頁，但看來不必了。

[StevenTam]

若你聽到他們以甚麼心態去接任這所謂的天文學會，我想信你定必會與我一樣感到非常憤慨。
Anyway，我認為這'大學s'所謂的天文學會是很的借轞。

[社長]

這個世界很奇妙的，當我們看到傳統天文會社每況愈下，由網絡組織的天文活動郤漸發展得有聲有色。又當我們看到一個論壇變質時，自然會有另一個論壇冒起補充其缺失。

我的天文生涯經歷了八十、九十、二千年代，這個年代優美之處是，資訊及技術已不被個別人士所把持，隨著科技加速，資訊的流通，今天你能獨領風騷，五年後可能已經落伍了。

所以不要太介意什麼會社如何這般，他們只會加快自己走入歷史的速度。

在工業時代，白手興家至鉅富是一輩子的工程，但在資訊年代，一個好構思加上數年時間便可以。所以在這個開放的年代，天文組織不必再拘泥於入會表格、會員證、會章等東西，因為一小群有質量的愛好者走在一起做有質量的事情，再假以不太短的時間，那種影響力隨時超過一個老字號的傳統會社。

”世界是平的”是一本很值得看的書。

[TimothyYu]

If go to 5100海拔, what do we need to take care, such as 高山証！！！！

[社長]

高山症或多或少會出現，如噁心、頭痛、失眠等，一般在低一點海拔如拉薩等，調整兩天過後便可適應過來，只要不逞強，大多數人都沒事，尤其是你的年紀：

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1034

當然天佑不要期望一下子跑上5100海拔觀星，那海拔水平，特別是西藏那種缺乏植被，故氧氣含量低的地點，隨意一個人留在山頂過夜是很危險的。國外的天文學家，比較好的做法是在二千多海拔停留，晚上要觀測時跑上去，但八小時內下來，因為身體耗用氧氣的情況下，通常症狀會8小時後出現。

其實去了西藏這麼多次留了這麼多天，也跟一些天文學家聊過，在海拔這點上其實不要太堅持。正如我今天還是很享受去年到過的台灣武嶺及雲南高米古的星空，也裡也能給我遠高於個人技術水平的天空，不過我是從更多其他考慮，才付出更大的代價跑到西藏去而已。

[David]

一群本來愛玩的學生用着資源去做着自己喜歡的事情而已。

I wonder what these are

[David]

They are just like helpers and such, and I really want to get rid of this habit.

That's my case also. 'Helpers' is a very good term!

The NSS has made our life even more miserable.

Apart from the poor initiative from the students, the NSS system also makes the good students so busy. Now, my students have so many activities even on Saturdays (school-based assessments, voluntary work, liberal studies tests and exams, visit universities) and lunch (alumni sharing on various jobs and studying abroad and in universities), not to mention that individual project in liberal studies. In our school, a not insignificant portion of lateness in form 5 is related to hard-working students, whose parents said that they work till 2-3am in the morning! My feeling is that the students are eternally busy, if they are serious about their study. I can only say that I am glad not studying this NSS course. In the old days, we had a lot of spare time to do things that we like. So I spent a lot of time reading about astronomy. If I were the students now, I won't have time to do so. I would need to do various things so that my education can be more 'balanced'.

The EDB in HK has a rational:

1. If something is good, make sure EVERYONE does it.
2. How to measure the success? Measure the amount of time spent on the activity.

So, for example, now everyone has to do a certain amount of voluntary work. I heard that some elderly home are so busy 'entertaining' requests from various schools. It makes you wonder: Who is servicing who?

So this is the typical scenario in my school: A student starts joining astronomy club from form 1 or 2, then stay for 2 years usually. Then the more passive students move on to other clubs. The more enthusiastic ones who continue in form 4 and 5 are so busy, in addition to their own poor initiative at leading the club.