如何進行室內星點測試

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如何進行室內星點測試

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社長 » 2010-03-02, 04:10

早前我們用人工星點進行了一個室內測試,由於人工星點距離望遠鏡在焦距的40x範圍,球差影響已儘量降低, viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63 不過最理想還是建立一個平行光管(Parallel beam collimator),以目前我手上最合適的工具包括APM-TMB 254 f9 APO,又或者用一台修正度更高的 APM-TMB 130 f9.25 APO都可以。Markus Ludes是德國APM的負責人,我在他的店裡看過一台很大口徑的反射鏡用來做collimator,因為他亦很喜歡做室內星點測試,這裡有38台市面上所常見的望遠鏡星點測試結果: http://aberrator.astronomy.net/scopetest/index.html

以下是一些我早前跟他談及的技術內容:

1. the apochromatic projector lens I use is a Takahashi Hi 2.8 mm 0.965" ortho in reversed way insert into the focuser , so it works like a projection lens and thats makes the lightsource not only flat but also much smaller then 50 micron

2. I have had a 500 mm flat but never used it. The alignment of the telescope against the flat must be done ultraprecision and taking even optical experts partly hours before they can do the startest.

3. LZOS do the alignment work until they reach in the test the guaranted quality or better , but never to perfection, because it cost hours and LZOS say none pay this extra work.

4. here is a much better tester then Mr. Rohr, Its Mr. Schreckling, see here http://www.astrotreff.de/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95328&whichpage=4 he tested 2 p 130/1200 with LZOS report of about 97 % strehl and his report of 99% after taking the time of perfect alignments

5. I use a collimator to make the startest in single pass , single pass is what customers see at sky. A startest in double pass kill even the most perfect optics. Customers are able to compare a single pass startest with what they see at sky , thats what is important to me therefore I use a collimator.

6. You can also use a good apo , like the 10" against that you can test perfect any smaller up to 10" diameter apo very critical

他叫我把254APO拿出來作為平行光管 (Parallel Beam) 來做室內星點測試那些小鏡,是否有點過份 :?
兩個天文台 - 白鷺湖天文台、西藏自動化天文觀測站
主鏡 - Officina Stellare 500 口徑f3.8 RiFast攝星儀、APM/TMB 254 f9 APO、SkyWatcher Dob 18、305 f8.5 牛頓鏡、Paramount ME 赤道儀
配件 - 2 full sets of Supermonocentrics、Baader Mark V Binoviewer、Ethos、Canon 5D Mark II Mod、FLI Proline 16803冷凍相機、Mercedes SUV
星河科研社 http://www.astro.hk 電郵 saviofong@astro.hk
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章willis » 2010-03-02, 15:33

Wow! This is a very inspiring post! The parallel beam just makes the test more rigorous. However, I guess the diffraction patterns observed will differ a bit. What I mean is that if I use simply an artificial star to test 2 telescopes A & B and the result is A better than B. It is highly possibly that using parallel beam setting. The result would be the same. i.e. A is better than B. In my school laboratory, there are several discharge tubes, say Hydrogen, Sodium and Mercury. If I use these discharge tubes and a Newtonian to do the star test, I can verify my claim. Do u think so? Any idea?

PS* One can guess the model of some of Markus tested telescopes from the spec...
Tak FS60C, APM-LOMO 80/480, APM-TMB 105/650, SW Black Diamond 120ED, Borg 125SD, SW 12" Dobs , Lunt LS35T, Lunt LS80T
TMB Super Mono 4mm, Pentax XO 2.5mm, Baader Planetarium 8-24mm, Nagler (2-4mm, 3-6mm, 13mm), Ethos (3.7mm, 6mm, 10mm), Explore Scientific 100º (14mm, 20mm)
DBK 21, DMK 21, DMK 41, DMK 51, ASI 178MC
Nikon D810A, Canon 5D II, Fujifilm X-T10
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章社長 » 2010-03-02, 17:12

willis 寫:Wow! This is a very inspiring post! The parallel beam just makes the test more rigorous. However, I guess the diffraction patterns observed will differ a bit. What I mean is that if I use simply an artificial star to test 2 telescopes A & B and the result is A better than B. It is highly possibly that using parallel beam setting. The result would be the same. i.e. A is better than B. In my school laboratory, there are several discharge tubes, say Hydrogen, Sodium and Mercury. If I use these discharge tubes and a Newtonian to do the star test, I can verify my claim. Do u think so? Any idea?

PS* One can guess the model of some of Markus tested telescopes from the spec...


你提到的情況應這樣解讀,

1. 若測試鏡片的球差修正度,有可能會出現誤差,試想佛科試鏡器下,在曲率半徑測試球面鏡,呈現的是無限遠光源照射拋物面鏡下的完美形態。即AB測試結果可能相反。

2. 若測試光軸、鏡片應力(如鏡框、物料均勻度)等,人工星點就算在數米外也一樣足以測出所有問題,而且十分敏感。

08年我到德國時,Markus收到一台某品牌80ED折射鏡的顧客退貨,他用人工星點在10米外測試,看到衍射環不規則的,初時以為光軸有問題,甚至鏡框壓力不均造成,把鏡片拆出來擺放兩星期後再裝回測試,結果如一,最後結論是玻璃選材不佳。所以由那時起,他決定不賣那個品牌的望遠鏡了。

要知道一台頂級折射鏡不單要設計精良、機械造工理想,若選用頂級材料,可能單那片ED玻璃原材料都已貴過一台入門級ED折射鏡的價格。所以不要單看什麼FPL53等便以為決定了一切。

現時我為內地一位用戶訂購的APM 304 F7.5 APO折射鏡,那片Super ED (OK4玻璃)單鑄造回火打磨便要用上1年多時間。

2001年引進的那台APM 600mm口徑f8卡反 (現設於麥理浩夫人渡假村)
http://www.news.gov.hk/tc/category/environment/081112/features/html/081112tc04001.htm
因為當時沒經驗,第一次跟APM交手,以為可以數月內付運,Markus很惱火的說不明白亞洲人的心態為何總是今天付款明天便希望收貨,因為LOMO鑄造主鏡再回火打磨是要一年以上的(材料為 Extra low expansion ceramics AstroSitall)。幸好當時韓國有一訂單未落實,我便馬上用信用咭付了訂金把主鏡素材搶過來,最後望遠鏡不足一年後便付運了,所以當時局外人是不理解為何那台鏡可以這麼快完成抵港的。

題外話,很多人認為Ritchey-Chretien Cassegrain (RC)就是一切,而那台APM 600mm口徑卡反我決定用Classical Cassegrain而非RC,是有背後考慮的,當時連太空館創館館長廖興齊先生也質疑過,後來經我解釋後他們接受了。你試看我當時一起訂的兩個配件規格就可了解一點:

平場鏡(4800mm有效焦距)
120mm field diameter
2-lens, air-spaced
80% of energy in <20microns for d=100mm field

0.5x平場減焦鏡(2400mm有效焦距)
40mm field diameter
4-lens, 3 groups corrector with CaF2 & ED glasses Element
80% of energy in <20microns for d=40mm field
The wavelength-range is 400nm to 700nm.
兩個天文台 - 白鷺湖天文台、西藏自動化天文觀測站
主鏡 - Officina Stellare 500 口徑f3.8 RiFast攝星儀、APM/TMB 254 f9 APO、SkyWatcher Dob 18、305 f8.5 牛頓鏡、Paramount ME 赤道儀
配件 - 2 full sets of Supermonocentrics、Baader Mark V Binoviewer、Ethos、Canon 5D Mark II Mod、FLI Proline 16803冷凍相機、Mercedes SUV
星河科研社 http://www.astro.hk 電郵 saviofong@astro.hk
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章funoooo » 2010-03-02, 20:23

死啦! 完全看不明白! :oops: :oops: :oops:
funoooo
 
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章willis » 2010-03-02, 21:56

I am making my virtual star sloooowly at the moment. I like the name virtual star more than artificial star. Anyway, when I finished I will post some related topics here. I will try to make them simple.
Tak FS60C, APM-LOMO 80/480, APM-TMB 105/650, SW Black Diamond 120ED, Borg 125SD, SW 12" Dobs , Lunt LS35T, Lunt LS80T
TMB Super Mono 4mm, Pentax XO 2.5mm, Baader Planetarium 8-24mm, Nagler (2-4mm, 3-6mm, 13mm), Ethos (3.7mm, 6mm, 10mm), Explore Scientific 100º (14mm, 20mm)
DBK 21, DMK 21, DMK 41, DMK 51, ASI 178MC
Nikon D810A, Canon 5D II, Fujifilm X-T10
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文章: 1526
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章社長 » 2010-03-02, 23:51

funoooo 寫:死啦! 完全看不明白! :oops: :oops: :oops:


以你現在做的事情,應該對這些敏感些啊,要多花時間認識一下了。
兩個天文台 - 白鷺湖天文台、西藏自動化天文觀測站
主鏡 - Officina Stellare 500 口徑f3.8 RiFast攝星儀、APM/TMB 254 f9 APO、SkyWatcher Dob 18、305 f8.5 牛頓鏡、Paramount ME 赤道儀
配件 - 2 full sets of Supermonocentrics、Baader Mark V Binoviewer、Ethos、Canon 5D Mark II Mod、FLI Proline 16803冷凍相機、Mercedes SUV
星河科研社 http://www.astro.hk 電郵 saviofong@astro.hk
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文章: 12686
註冊時間: 2010-02-01, 14:17
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Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章社長 » 2010-03-02, 23:54

willis 寫:I am making my virtual star sloooowly at the moment. I like the name virtual star more than artificial star. Anyway, when I finished I will post some related topics here. I will try to make them simple.


期待早日看到你的分享! :P

對,artificial star / virtual star 是很容易製作,星點測試也是進階天文愛好者應該掌握的技巧。
兩個天文台 - 白鷺湖天文台、西藏自動化天文觀測站
主鏡 - Officina Stellare 500 口徑f3.8 RiFast攝星儀、APM/TMB 254 f9 APO、SkyWatcher Dob 18、305 f8.5 牛頓鏡、Paramount ME 赤道儀
配件 - 2 full sets of Supermonocentrics、Baader Mark V Binoviewer、Ethos、Canon 5D Mark II Mod、FLI Proline 16803冷凍相機、Mercedes SUV
星河科研社 http://www.astro.hk 電郵 saviofong@astro.hk
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社長
Site Admin
 
文章: 12686
註冊時間: 2010-02-01, 14:17
來自: 香港

Re: 如何進行室內星點測試

文章社長 » 2010-03-03, 03:30

willis 寫:Wow! This is a very inspiring post! The parallel beam just makes the test more rigorous. However, I guess the diffraction patterns observed will differ a bit. What I mean is that if I use simply an artificial star to test 2 telescopes A & B and the result is A better than B. It is highly possibly that using parallel beam setting. The result would be the same. i.e. A is better than B. In my school laboratory, there are several discharge tubes, say Hydrogen, Sodium and Mercury. If I use these discharge tubes and a Newtonian to do the star test, I can verify my claim. Do u think so? Any idea?

PS* One can guess the model of some of Markus tested telescopes from the spec...


Willis,還有一點,若使用平行光管,你的牛頓鏡精度要非常的高,Markus那台好像是400mm口徑 99.7%Strehl的,據我理解你手上沒有這樣的鏡 :oops:

我手上的APM-TMB 254 f9 APO會好得多,Strehl本身也夠高。當然用一台APM-TMB 130 f9.25APO會更好,因為這個鏡頭在超可見光波段內全修正,Polychromatic Strehl是全系列中最高的一個型號。

另外僅把50um的人工點置於焦點也不成,因為相對於平行光管的主焦距來說,仍是太大了,Markus是用一個2.8mm目鏡以投影法把點光源進一步縮小的(object distance >> image distance),我可以用Mono 4mm,又或者Pentax XO 2.5mm ;)

有沒有想過我們自己用collimator去試一下手上的鏡,拍一些星點測試照片存在這裡作資料庫?
兩個天文台 - 白鷺湖天文台、西藏自動化天文觀測站
主鏡 - Officina Stellare 500 口徑f3.8 RiFast攝星儀、APM/TMB 254 f9 APO、SkyWatcher Dob 18、305 f8.5 牛頓鏡、Paramount ME 赤道儀
配件 - 2 full sets of Supermonocentrics、Baader Mark V Binoviewer、Ethos、Canon 5D Mark II Mod、FLI Proline 16803冷凍相機、Mercedes SUV
星河科研社 http://www.astro.hk 電郵 saviofong@astro.hk
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文章: 12686
註冊時間: 2010-02-01, 14:17
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